On Episode 571, I welcome Jackie Shay, Assistant Teaching Professor in Ecology, Evolution, and Marine Biology at UC Santa Barbara, to Teaching in Higher Ed. She contributed a chapter about overcoming imposter syndrome in STEM through joyful curiosity for the book: Joy-Centered Pedagogy in Higher Education: Uplifting Teaching & Learning for All, edited by Eileen Camfield. Jackie is a joyful educator and advocate for inclusive, student-centered science education, with research focusing on the impact of meaningful, joy-centered learning experiences. In our conversation, Jackie courageously opens up about her personal experiences with imposter syndrome, including fears around intellectual capability, identity, productivity, and even the role of joy—and how those doubts linger despite advanced degrees and professional accomplishments. We discuss the importance of reframing “rigor” in STEM fields from unnecessary memorization and logistical obstacles to a more meaningful cognitive rigor rooted in connection, growth, and engagement.

Resources from the episode:

• Joy-Centered Pedagogy in Higher Education: Uplifting Teaching & Learning for All, edited by Eileen Camfield
• Emotional Intelligence
• Video about neuroplasticity
• Making Challenging Subjects Fun: Episode 66 with Anissa Ramirez
• Creating Desirable Difficulties to Enhance Learning, by Elizabeth L. Bjork and Robert Bjork
• Beyond Dichotomous Thinking: Episode 527 with Alexis Peirce Caudell
• What Baby George (and Handstands) Taught me About Learning from Mike Wesch
• Radical hope: A teaching manifesto, by Kevin Gannon
• Fred Wolf
• Awe: The new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life, by Dacher Keltner
• Coaching for Leaders Episode 254: Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner
• Tennis ball massage
• Relaxed Cozy House Mix in a New York Loft | Tinzo

Episode topics:

• Imposter Syndrome and the “Fraud” Narrative in Academia
• Joyful Curiosity as a Tool for Overcoming Doubt
• Navigating Intersectional Identities in STEM
• Socialization of Joy and Curiosity in Educational Spaces
• Rigor Redefined: Cognitive vs. Logistical Difficulties
• Novice vs. Expert Thinking: Building Interconnected Knowledge
• Cultivating Awe and Mindfulness in the Classroom
• Encouraging Growth Mindset and Normalizing Failure

Discussion questions:

1. Jackie Shay discusses various forms of imposter syndrome she has experienced throughout her career. Which of her examples resonated most with you, and why?
2. Joyful curiosity is a recurring theme in Jackie’s approach to learning and teaching. How do you see curiosity acting as an antidote to imposter syndrome in higher education?
3. Reflect on your own educational experiences. Can you recall a time when your natural curiosity was either encouraged or dismissed? How did that affect your relationship to learning?
4. Jackie describes “rigor” in her teaching as supporting meaningful, challenging work, rather than making things hard for the sake of difficulty. How might this perspective on rigor change assessment or course design in your discipline?
5. Jackie talks about the importance of normalizing failure and embracing vulnerability in learning. What are some ways you’ve modeled or encouraged this in your teaching, and what outcomes have you seen?

Related Episodes

Other episodes that may spark your imagination further include:

• Episode 566: Joy-Centered Pedagogy

  Guest: Eileen Camfield

  Eileen Camfield discusses the concept of joy-centered pedagogy, emphasizing how incorporating joy into teaching practices can enhance learning and foster resilience among students and educators.

• Episode 565: Embracing Anger to Find Joyful Agency

  Guest: Jamie Moore

  Jamie Moore examines how acknowledging and embracing anger can lead to empowerment and joyful agency in educational settings, particularly within the context of Black feminist pedagogy.

• Episode 342: Place-Based Learning

  Guests: Amy Sprowles & Matthew Johnson

  Amy Sprowles and Matthew Johnson discuss how place-based learning communities can create supportive environments for underrepresented students by connecting curriculum to local culture and ecology.

• Episode 260: A Shipwreck, a Fakesbook, and a WISH

  Guest: Zoë Wood

  Zoë Wood shares her experiences integrating computer science with art and storytelling to engage students in creative learning projects, including modeling underwater shipwrecks and developing educational tools like Fakesbook.

• Episode 246: Teaching STEM for Social Impact

  Guests: Karina Garbesi & Erik Helgren

  Karina Garbesi and Erik Helgren explore how STEM education can be directed toward social good, highlighting programs that involve students in projects like building solar suitcases to address energy poverty.

• Episode 539: Joyful Connections Through Intentional Teaching Practices

  Guest: Teresa Thompson

  Teresa Thompson shares strategies for creating joyful and intentional connections with students, such as themed syllabi and classroom activities that foster engagement and a sense of belonging.

Quotable Words

Zoë Wood reminds us of how rich we are for getting to engage with diverse students on Episode 260:

Being able to engage with students who are all such unique individuals is a privilege.

Next Week’s Episode

On the upcoming episode of Teaching in Higher Ed, Leon Furze returns, this time to share about a post he wrote: Myths, Magic, and Metaphors: The Language of Generative AI.

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Affiliate income disclosure: Books that are recommended on the podcast link to the Teaching in Higher Ed bookstore on Bookshop.org. All affiliate income gets donated to the LibroMobile Arts Cooperative (LMAC), established in 2016 by Sara Rafael Garcia.”

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