On Episode 581, I welcome Alexandra (Ana) Kogl, Political Theory and Women’s Studies Professor at the University of Northern Iowa, to Teaching in Higher Ed. We explore Ana’s change in perspective from viewing teaching as an emotionally distant, strictly intellectual endeavor to discovering the transformative potential of joy, even amidst the most difficult topics in political science. Ana reflects on how opening the classroom to the full range of human emotions, rather than compartmentalizing or numbing, helps students and professors engage more authentically with questions of justice, suffering, and community.

Together, we discuss the importance of modeling both presence and calm in the classroom, especially when dealing with heavy or contentious material, and how joy can be cultivated by recognizing shared needs for justice and connection. Ana offers powerful stories of classroom vulnerability, laughter, and unexpected moments of liberation that arise when students realize their lived experiences matter. The conversation touches on moving beyond zero-sum thinking about justice, tolerating helplessness, and fostering a sense of restorative, inexhaustible community, reminding us why joy belongs at the table, even when what we’re learning about is hard.

Resources from the episode:

• Joy-Centered Pedagogy in Higher Education: Uplifting Teaching & Learning for All, edited by Eileen Camfield
• Ross Gay
• Masculinity as Homophobia: Fear, Shame and Silence in the Construction of Gender Identity, by Michael S. Kimmel
• SIFT
• Audre Lorde
• Martin Luther King Jr.
• Mike Caulfield
• Karl Marx
• Stanley Milgram
• Hannah Arendt
• Joy Cards
• Eichmann in Jerusalem
• All My Relations Podcast

Episode topics:

• Expecting the Intellectual: Early Teaching Assumptions
• Opening the Door to Joy in the Classroom
• Engaging the Full Range of Human Emotion
• Student Expectations: Numbness and Classroom Culture
• Beginning with Suffering: Teaching Ancient Justice
• Numbness vs. Joy: Coping and Vulnerability
• Tolerating Helplessness Before Action
• Modeling Neutral Affect and Avoiding Pity
• Joy, Justice, and Unlearning Zero-Sum Thinking
• Redefining Competition and Building Classroom Community

Discussion questions:

1. Ana describes expecting teaching to be purely intellectual, with little space for emotion or joy. How have your own expectations of higher education (as a student or teacher) matched or differed from this view?
2. The episode explores the idea of “setting a place at the table for joy,” inspired by Ross Gay. What strategies can educators use to invite joy into difficult or emotionally charged classroom conversations?
3. According to Ana, the opposite of joy is numbness, not suffering. Do you agree? How does numbing affect learning, engagement, and community in the classroom?
4. The conversation brings up the idea of tolerating helplessness in the face of injustice before jumping to action. How might practicing this kind of pause change classroom discussions about challenging topics or social change?
5. Ana mentions the dangers of performing pity or having an overly emotive affect as an instructor. How can educators demonstrate compassion without unintentionally silencing or “othering” students who have experienced injustice?
6. The episode explores the zero-sum approach to justice versus a view of justice as restorative and inexhaustible. How might joy help move classroom conversations beyond a zero-sum mindset?

Related Episodes

If you found meaning in Joyful Justice with Alexandra (Ana) Kogl (Episode 581), you may also appreciate these conversations that explore how educators can pursue equity and joy with clarity, courage, and care:

• Radical Hope: A Teaching Manifesto (Episode 304) with Kevin Gannon

  Kevin Gannon invites us to resist despair in higher education by embracing radical hope and sustaining justice-focused teaching through community and compassion.

• An interdisciplinary legacy (Episode 357 with Sandie Morgan and Warren Doody
  Sandie and Warren help me celebrate the legacy of Elizabeth Leonard and how her work lives on well beyond her life. She knew how to think in interdisciplinary ways and bring about more justice in the world.

Quotable Words

Another great insight from Ana on Episode 581 is when she shares:

Joy isn't something that we can coerce out of students.

Next Week’s Episode

On the upcoming episode of Teaching in Higher Ed, Adriana Aldana shares about Counterstory Pedagogy: Student Letters of Resilience, Healing, and Resistance.

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Affiliate income disclosure: Books that are recommended on the podcast link to the Teaching in Higher Ed bookstore on Bookshop.org. All affiliate income gets donated to the LibroMobile Arts Cooperative (LMAC), established in 2016 by Sara Rafael Garcia.”

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